Abit IT7 MAX2 Rev2, the best P4 board!!!

[Colin]

Man, after playing around with one for the last few days I must say this board is awesome... I like just about <b>everything</b> about the board from the Port80 card, to the Power and Reset buttons on the PCB to all the fan headers available.<BR><BR>To top things off, it's about the best overclocking Pentium 4 motherboard on the market. Here's some pictures of the bad boy...<BR><BR><img src="http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/Forum/IT7_MAX2_Rev2_1.JPG"><BR><BR><img src="http://members.lycos.co.uk/csmo/Forum/IT7_MAX2_Rev2_2.JPG"><BR><BR>Even though I have been playing with P4's for a while now, I have never enjoyed using a mobo as much as the IT7 MAX2 Rev2... Reminds me a lot of my old Epox 8KHA+, I loved that board as well...

[Avid6eek]

Talk about a board with no style. You have that board right where it deserves to be....on the floor of us AMD'ers to walk all over <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0"> That is also one ugly heatsink you got there as well <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[Colin]

I only put it on the floor cuz I get the best light that way! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0"><BR><BR>Ya, the heatsink is not great to look at, but it works great! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> It's a Thermalright AX-478/Thermaltake Smart Fan2 combo. <BR><BR>Btw, yes I know the TT RAMsinks don't do anything in terms of cooling, but they actually help keep EMI down!

[Avid6eek]

I'm sorry for always having such negative Intel comments. I'm not going to stop, I just want you to know that occasionally I feel guilt. I know you spend tons of money on that ************************, and I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I did not feel guilding about calling that an ugly heatsink though....it truly is. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0"> <BR><BR><b>EDIT:</b> Please disregard the above comments. I was drinking heavily. I'm sober now, and that heatsink is still the ugliest I've ever seen.

[Colin]

?!? Shiznit showing feelings? WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH OUR SHIZNIT?!?!? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0">

[Avid6eek]

Review Edit of my previous post.

[Colin]

Haha! The affects of alcohol! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">

[roy]

That board looks sweet. I like how there is a gap from the AGP slot to the first PCI slot because having an AGP card nulls the first slot anyway.<BR><BR>Speaking of RAM heatsinks, think I should get one for a 512MB PC3200?<BR>If so, which are the tasty ones?

[Colin]

<br><br><< <i>That board looks sweet. I like how there is a gap from the AGP slot to the first PCI slot because having an AGP card nulls the first slot anyway.<BR><BR>Speaking of RAM heatsinks, think I should get one for a 512MB PC3200?<BR>If so, which are the tasty ones?</i> >><br><br>It's the best P4 board I have ever used! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> Very happy with it, too bad it costs so much though.<BR><BR>As for RAMsinks roy, first they'll void your warranty and they don't do much in terms of cooling. If you do get your memory to run at very high speeds though, I hear the TT heat spreaders are good EMI shields...

[phill9700]

so in a yes no answer, would you buy this board and a intel 4 at a decent clock speed if you where going to upgrade from a xp1800 with 512mbs of ram and a 9700 pro??

[Avid6eek]

OMG....how could you ever consider <b>migrating</b> from an Athlon XP to a Pentium 4. That would have to be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Notice I used the word <b>Migrate</b> as opposed to <b>Upgrade</b>. It's only considered an upgrade if you get something the improves performance!

[DeanLowe]

The world is not as simple as yes or no. There are lots of factors to consider. <BR>Do you care that you'll have to pay more for Intel?<BR>Which version of the 1800+ do you have?<BR>What board do have?<BR>Do you want to overclock?<BR>...and many other questions to ask yourself when considering such a move.

[phill9700]

so what you trying to tell me?<BR>that its a bad idea?<BR>i would have thought by getting a 2.66ghz p4 or above would be upgrading !!! how can i be so wrong?!!!!

[Avid6eek]

It would be much cheaper to just put a Athlon XP 2600 in the board you have right now. You'd have basically the same performance for a whole lot cheaper.

[phill9700]

why so many questions? surely its as simple as, if its faster, have it?<BR>i aint bothered to a point what i have as long as it doesnt keep back my 9700 pro and that it will be a monster when i use it for video editing and of course, gaming.<BR>i have a standard xp1800 (that i do know of) and as for the board, i have a kr7a motherboard.<BR>if overclocking is an option to make something go even faster, then why the hell not!!<BR>what other questions are there to ask or answer? please help me out here!!

[phill9700]

but my board or memory would support the xp2600! i dont even think that the motherboard would!!!<BR>how would it be the same performance compared to a p4 @ 2.8ghz?????<BR>when running for example, the 3dmark 2001se it seems to be that the intels get a better run than the amds when it comes to speed.. whats it like compared to that in games?

[DeanLowe]

In the end it comes down to money. If you don't mind spending more for the simular performance then get Intel. The higher you go the price difference becomes less and less. If you want the most for every buck spent then get a T'bred ver. B and overclock it. <BR><BR>This is what it all about...LOL<BR><img src="http://members.lycos.co.uk/deanl0we/misc/bushbuck.jpg"><BR><BR><a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/kr7a/biosdrive.php">From the KR7A BIOS page</a>: "Support AMD Athlon XP CPU, 0.18 micron process Palomino up to 2100+ and 0.13 micron process Thoroughbred up to 2000+."

[phill9700]

this is what i have been told to get and upgrade to, what you think?<BR>Asus A7N8X-Deluxe<BR>2100+ AIUHB <BR>2 x 512MB pc3200 (Corsair is good)<BR>slk-800 cpu heat sink<BR>2500-3000rpm fan for heat sink<BR>2100+ T-bred B, week 0248, 0250, or 0302<BR> or would an msi board be best? i have seen them getting great reviews lately, or what about an epox board?<BR>thanks for the help!<BR>oh money? who gives a to** about money? i have a 10k hi-fi setup in the front room, do you think i care about money?!!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[DeanLowe]

Must be nice to not have to worry about money.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>How about <BR>P4 3.06GHz w/HyperThreading<BR>Asus P4G8X Deluxe Dual Channel DDR(actually works on P4 systems)<BR>2 X 512MB DDR400<BR><BR>But an overclocked 2100+ Thoroughbred B can be just as fast as the P4 3.06GHz. Intel gets their advantage from developers optimize with P4 only instructions like SSE2 and HyperThreading. And you won't have to worry about heat or noise with an Intel system because the thermal protection is built in to the CPU. Also don't have to worry about cracking/chipping the core. AMD systems are more "fun" to "play" with and overclock.<BR><BR>As for the nForce2 boards in a nut shell, the Asus A7N8X Deluxe has the most features, the MSI K7N2-L is the cheapest and the Epox 8RDA+ is the best overclocker(so I keep hearing from people like Colin).

[Colin]

phill9700 to answer your question, yes if i were buying a P4 system I would definitely get the IT7MAX2 Rev2 as the motherboard.<BR><BR>Obviously $$$ is not a problem for you, so why not get a P4 rig? I know I love mine, it has served me very well for the last 6 months (I upgraded from an XP 2000+ and KR7A-RAID myself! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">).<BR><BR>If you're looking for more performance, I would try overclocking your machine a bit first. In terms of performance, it's difficult to gauge which is better, AMD or INtel... If the application has SSE2, the P4 will <b>always</b> win, if it doesn't the Athlon will most likely perform better. If your app's require a lot of pure FPU power, AMD is clearly superior to Intel here, the FPU of the P4 is quite weak.<BR><BR>What is the purpose of your computer? A gaming machine?

[Avid6eek]

Disreguard the last two comments by DeanLowe and Colin <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0"> That is an awsome AMD Setup you've got there and seems like a winning combination to me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[phill9700]

now i said i dont worry about money, but i do see sense in what not to buy, just because its just too new and expensive.. although like i say, im not bothered, i do consider (sometimes!!) about price/performance...<BR>the p4 rig would be an experience as i havent ever used a intel 4 setup before.. well noise isnt such a problem.. i will just turn up the hi-fi more!! (even tho its in the front room!)<BR>well im open to sugguestions, but i would like to see in action before i buy, seeing numbers on the screen is great, but what is really better to use in windows/games etc? you need to get a feel for it as and when you can use it!<BR>i will see what happens with regards to money at the time and so on.. i believe seeing is believing so i will just have to have a look at the guys intel/amd setups at my local..<BR>

[phill9700]

i will start with the over clocking.. i have tried it (hence the score of 13885 in 3dmark 2001se in 98se, i cant beat it!!) but i get to about 142fsb but it goes now further, whether or not thats to do with the motherboard or the memory i have no idea.. but its really not enough for me, i need it to be a lot faster (for example, i would love to be hitting 19k or 20k in the benchmark as a rough rough guide to the performance id like.. i know its just numbers, but its a nice round figure!!)<BR>i have nothing against amd or intel, this is why im having a troubles thinking of what to get!<BR>i have noticed that the performance of the amds seem to be limited within 3dmark 2001 (depending on cpu), rendering, some games (ie quake 3) but others like serious sam 2, certain other benchmarks, like sysmark the amd screams ahead..<BR>im glad i have a few things sorted out, what motherboard and memory to get for the intel/amd setups, but the main thing is which would be best long term so that i wouldnt need to upgrade for a year or so ?? (well i can try and kid myself cant i????!!)<BR>colin, i will be doing (when i get a capture card, could you recommend one of those as well? i have been hearing about dc10+ or something like that from pinnicle, but i dont want something to just do the job, i want a little more, saves spending more money to get something better that way.. anyway...) capturing and editing video (anything like that really) gaming (heavy if i can get the games i want!!) lan gaming, anything.. i use my pc for a lot of things, but games and capture will be the most 'used' things that i will be doing..<BR>with regards to cooling, both amd and intel, what would be the best way of doing it? if you have any ideas, i would be most glad to hear them!! from anyone!<BR>oh, might you know roughly when or what the next ati card will be (after the next one thats coming out, the ati 9900 pro??? im thinking i might get one... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[phill9700]

well im open about trying new bits for pcs so i might get the p4 setup, but i think i might see if i can get one of these 'special' xp2100 cpus... what you reckon? worth a shot? or is it worth hanging on for a new amd cpu?<BR>one question, with the xp2100's how are they for cooling and more importantly, what fan/heatsink would be best to try and get hold of? oh, whats the chance that i could get one over in the uk with little problems? any thoughts?

[DeanLowe]

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html">Tom's Hardware</a> just put out a CPU benchmark comparison of almost all Intel and AMD desktop CPUs for the past 10 years.

[Colin]

phill9700 I was in the exact same position as you when I moved to Intel... Having played with AMD for a good two years solid, I was getting a bit bored and wanted to try "the other side" and I'm very happy. <BR><BR>Both AMD and Intel have their Pro's and Con's so it's difficult to say which is better. If I were you, I'd try to get the AIUHB XP 2100+ first, it's the cheaper option and you should get quite a performance boost out of it as well! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> <BR><BR>As for cooling, how "extreme" do you want to go? Water, Phase Change?

[phill9700]

well i have been talking to other guys in other forums about the same thing and this is what i was told..<BR><BR>AMD has lost it's edge. The pricing for newer processors aren't low anyomore. For the same price you can get an intel equivalent. If you want seriousquality right now would go with intel. Also, an intel based system is likely to last longer and be easier to upgrade. The AMD sockets and chipsets are going to be overhauled soon.<BR><BR>I know it sounds bad... but AMD needs their new processor yesterday. <BR><BR>so it seems i might be going over to the slightly larger side <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>any preferences to the hardware choice? memory? i know the motherboard, the good olde ABIT IT72 Max, (that was the one wasnt it?) any particular cpu i need to get so i can overclock it rather a lot?<BR>to be honest colin im not that experienced with anything other than air cooling.. but what else is there that would be good but wouldnt cost a few million quid? and what would you recommend to keep the cpu cool? are intels very hot?

[Colin]

phill9700 from your other threads it sounds like you're going to stick with AMD, but I'll give you some INtel opinions anyway. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"><BR><BR>Currently the P4 2.66B is probably your "best bet" when it comes to overclocking. Based on teh C1 core, most do 3 GHz easy and mine can do 3.3 Ghz on air! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> Lower clocked C1's don't seem to fair as well when it comes to overclocking.<BR><BR>Highly clocked Intel processors run <b>just</b> as hot as AMD CPU's, however they have better thermal management... If your CPU overheats, the P4 will automatically slow itself down and not get damaged. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR><BR>As for cooling, I'm not familiar with your currency... I know a decent water cooled setup cost about $400 CDN and if you want to get a Prometeia (Phase Change, works on the same concept as a fridge) that will run you about $1100 CDN... Of course a Prometeia would be for the more extreme users. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[phill9700]

im still not sure with amd or intel, im just stating at the moment, amds cheaper and i think it can be overclocked nicely as well, so that will help with the price.. i love free performance <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR><BR>with the intels slowing themselves down, do you notice the difference when using the machine? i have been told you can take off the heatsink and fan when its on and it wont break!! is that right? my currency is £ and i use a rough exchange of $1.6 dollars (us) to £1.. <BR>im not sure whether or not you could call me extreme, but i do like to take things to the maximum sometimes!!<BR>what cooling setup do you use? air? water? Prometeia ? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>the price for a intel @ 2.66ghz is about £200 + vat for me.. i think that the 2.8ghz is about £255 + vat.. which would you go for? you say the IT7 MAX2 Rev2 is the best p4 board, would i still need the corsair memory that im getting for the p4 setup or dont they need it so much as the amds? or have i got that round the wrong way...<BR>i dont mind having two choices, i just normally go for price/performance..

[zaltec]

I would go for the P4 2.66B, and the gigabyte G-8INXP board. It supports dual channel DDR so that you don't limit your 533FSB processor<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> Prometia would be your best bet if you want to Overclock to hell and back. Most sites that reviewed prometias have gotten 700Mhz+ out of them. THG got a P4 3.06 to 4200Mhz<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0"><BR>The Abit It7 is a very nice ocing board<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> But I think that the G-8INXP will end up being faster all in all, because of the dual channel DDR.<BR><BR>Speaking of which Colin, have you reviewed that board? Or are you waiting on one to review?

[phill9700]

at the moment i feel that the epox/amd/corsair setup seems to be getting a thumbs up for me for being cheaper than the intel 4 equalivent..<BR>i am wanting to try the intels as i never had, but i think i will stick with amd so far.. but things always change anyway...<BR>i have seen someone getting a 3.06ghz p4 to 4.6ghz!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0"><BR>im not sure how hes done it, but it was using LN2 cooling? whats all that on about?

[phill9700]

<a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1784&p=10">review of gigabyte dual ddr board</a><BR><BR>colin i think that this might mean you will have to upgrade!!<BR>im not sure of the extra cost of this board, but it does look worthwhile to get over the abit board, and like zaltec was saying, it is faster... umm... i wonder <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[zaltec]

LN2 is easy...you set up your pc, put a metal tower on the cpu die...and fill it with liquid nitrogen. Roughly -190 centigrade and about 10-20 mminutes of time before all the nitrogen evaporates<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> It expensive because ofthe containers for the nitogen and also the dangers involved. Burns are common with LN2 and it displaces the air in the room as it evaporates, making LN2 cooling a viable option for laboratory tests and extreme benchmarking. The prometia is a phase change cooler, and boasts average of -25 centigrade, a few mods can lower htat to -50 centigrade<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0">. The prometia rigs run stable at 4.2Ghz, THG ran theirs for a month stably, much longer than the max of 30 mins you have with LN2.<BR><BR>And I think the AMD rig is awesome<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0"> (why not get them both<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">) j/k

[phill9700]

well i guess that the LN2 is just for gragging rights then really yeah? well, i dont think that i will be doing that very quickly!!<BR>i dont think that i will be getting the prometha, its just a little over the top..<BR>im still thinking of going intel, but i will probably go intel.. you know what its like <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>i will definitely consider intel, but is intel really quicker than amd?

[zaltec]

Depends on what you want, Intel is Mhz faster, AMD is FPU faster<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[phill9700]

ok, i will put it this way..<BR>i have listed a few components down below, and i think that the prices are farily good and will be hard to beat (i live in england so if you know of anywhere better to get it from please let me know!!!) anyway, heres what i have been thinking about getting, intel and amd:<BR><BR>intel first.. (to be honest, this price gave me a shock!!)<BR>Gigabyte GA8INXP skt478 e7205 Granite 533FSB £135.00 £158.63 <BR>Abit IT7 Max2 Pentium® 4 Intel® 845e 533FSB £105.00 £123.38<BR> <BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3500 DDR 434MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3500C2) £133.00 £156.28 this and<BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3500 DDR 434MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3500C2) £133.00 £156.28 this<BR> <BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3200 DDR 400MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3200C2) £113.00 £132.78 or this<BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3200 DDR 400MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3200C2) £113.00 £132.78 and this<BR> <BR>Intel® Pentium® 4 2.66GHz (533MHz) 512K cache Retail £199.50 £234.41 <BR>Intel® Pentium® 4 2.8GHz (533MHz) 512K cache Retail £259.50 £304.91 <BR>Intel® Pentium® 4 3.066GHz (533MHz) Hyper threading 512K cache Retail £423.00 £497.03 <BR><BR>and now for the amd setup...<BR>Abit NF7S nForce2 Socket A 8xAGP +RAID (up to DDR400) £75.00 £88.13<BR>Epox 8RDA+ nForce2 Skt A (up to DDR400) £77.50 £91.06<BR><BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3500 DDR 434MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3500C2) £133.00 £156.28<BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3500 DDR 434MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3500C2) £133.00 £156.28<BR><BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3200 DDR 400MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3200C2) £113.00 £132.78<BR>Corsair® 512MB XMS 3200 DDR 400MHz with Heat Spreader (CMX512-3200C2) £113.00 £132.78<BR><BR>AMD Athlon XP 2600 (333MHz) Retail inc.fan Thoroughbred Core(3 yr.warr.) £165.50 £194.46<BR>AMD Athlon XP 2700 (333MHz) Retail inc.fan Thoroughbred Core(3 yr.warr.) £183.50 £215.61<BR><BR>now judging by my thoughts and wants etc, i have sort of figured out what i want from the above few things..<BR>intel<BR> P4 @ 2.66ghz, 2 x 512mbs PC3500, Gigabyte board total cost = £705.59<BR>amd<BR>XP2700, 2 x 512mbs of PC3500, Epox 8RDA+ board total cost = £598.08<BR><BR>now judging by the peformance differences, which would be best? i could consider getting the xp2600 for a little more saved cash, so that will knock it down a little (say for arguement £30). i would say amd for price/performance, but for overclocking?<BR>which setup (intel or amd) would be best for video editing and gaming? i will be getting another rig for the internet.. i think its best <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>any ideas colin? zaltec?<BR>

[zaltec]

I'm assuming that the second price stated is including VAT? <BR>AMD is definately the king of those setup as regards price performance, and it's a superb gaming rig<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> The Intel setup is a beauty also, and would be the better overclocker. The P4 2.4 seems to overclock higher than the 2.66B's do. (save perhaps Colin's test rig<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">)<BR>The 2600+ is an alternative, but the 2700+ is based on the 333FSB t-bred core while the 2600+ is only 266FSB. <BR>As regards to an internet setup, I'm not sure on waht would be cost effective and powerfull without going for a second rig almost as powerfull as your main rig. All you would really need is a 1 gig cpu 512 ram and a 32 meg vid card<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">

[phill9700]

quote:<BR><BR>The 2600+ is an alternative, but the 2700+ is based on the 333FSB t-bred core while the 2600+ is only 266FSB. <BR><BR>I thought that the xp2600 was a 333fsb chip? wasnt that the lowest they went with the 166fsb?<BR>well i do have spare duron cpus floating about here somewhere!! i am trying to swap my rig (sort of) for a slower rig, but i was going to use that for the interent as such.. i hate not having 100% cpu power when i need it to play games as and when im downloading something.. it really does limit me sometimes to what i can play and that bugs me..<BR>same as having a slow internet machine.. i cant handle it as im used to speed!!!