GNXtreme

[Ginsu543]

Since you seem to have a system configuration that is closest to mine, I have a question for you. I've read in one of the threads that you currently have your 2100+ AIUHB oc'd at 2.236 GHz (13 x 172 FSB). I've got mine at 2.250 (13 x 173 GHz). The question I have is this: do you have any trouble running games on your system at your current oc? Right now, my Win98SE is running solid (including all programs that run off Windows) at my current setup, but I can't seem to run any games without them freezing up on me. It is true that most of my games are fairly old, but I can't get them to work. My EA Sports NBA Live 2001 will start up and play, but after a while it will freeze up. My Star Wars: Rogue Squadron won't even boot.<BR><BR>Have you had similar problems, or is it just me? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif" border="0">

[BAM!]

any program freez, shutdown, or restart is a sign of instability. most of the time you might be able to run everyday application in widows without a problem but when it comes to intense applications like games, and distributed computing softwares where the instructions are more intensive than those everyday softwares, it can freeze up your computer. i strongly suggest you download Prime95 and run their torture test for at least 40 mins without any background applications running. if it gives you calculation error or any type of freeze up or shut down..... you'll clearly know if you're system overclock is stable or not. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[Ginsu543]

Thanks, BAM!<BR><BR>I will try out Prime95 and see what happens. But I'm not going to be happy if I have to downgrade my OC for stability sake. I'm already used to the blazing speeds, lol!!!

[BAM!]

yeah i know how that feels .... but hey.. what's the point of having a blazing fast computer if it crashes and give computing errors... gotta think of it that way. i can sure clock my system to 2.4ghz... but hey... it wno't calculate folding@home correctly and sure will crash a lot in games.

[GNXtreme]

I have actually clocked my cpu back down to 2.0GHz...for temperature reasons...I live in Oklahoma and it has been getting quite warm here the last few days and I don't have my a/c running yet...will probably turn it on today thou...it is pretty warm today.&nbsp; Anyway when I did have it at 2.23GHz I didn't try playing any games...I know I am a slacker...but I did run Prime95 for about 2 hours and ran folding for several days.&nbsp; So based on that I assume mine was extremely stable.&nbsp; I will clock it back up and see what it will do.

[TranceJunkieXL]

Yeah you slacker GNX. Clock that "beotch" back up. Now where have I heard that before?<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif" border="0"><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> ROFLOL!

[GNXtreme]

ok ok ok....I deserved that rithemking!!!&nbsp; I will....<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">

[Ginsu543]

Well, after running Prime95 at different settings, I've decided to set my system to 2.210 GHz (13 x 170 MHz FSB). This seems to be the highest level of oc that still allows all 37 Prime95 tests to run without errors. I also played NBA Live 2001 at this setting and I was able to finish an entire game without it freezing up on me. Alright!!! I guess for my NF7-S ver1.0, 170 MHz FSB is the highest it will oc and still be stable. For you guys with ver2.0, you should be able to get much higher. I'm getting a bit green (with envy), lol! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"> <BR><BR>BTW, what are your cpu temps, GNXtreme? What is your idle temp, mobo temp, and burn-in temp (if you have one)? I'm wondering if mine is running at comparable temps.

[DeanLowe]

Can you lower the multiplier?<BR><BR>The majority of nforce 2 boards(pre C1) can run the FSB at around the 200MHz mark.

[Ginsu543]

Dean,<BR><BR>I tried lowering the multiplier and raising the FSB, but nothing worked. I couldn't get Windows to boot at FSB above 183 MHz, and Prime95 failed from 171 to 183 MHz. However, at 13 x 170 MHz, my system is rock solid. I had Prime95 running over an hour with no errors. At 170 MHz, I was also able to lower my cpu core voltage. Now, my cpu idles at 44C and goes up to 60C after an hour of Prime95. Before, my cpu used to idle at 48C (sometimes even 51C).

[DeanLowe]

Your RAM settings might be too aggressive for those speeds.

[BAM!]

yeah i didn't notice your timing was so agressive!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0">..... try slow it down a little bit i am sure like dean said that's what's preventing you from going over 170.

[TranceJunkieXL]

Well Ginsu, I got my 1700+JIUHB running at 2.244GHz last night on the NF7-S with the GEIL RAM (I think the timings are 2-6-3-3 though). That was a 187FSB with 12x multiplier. I had to increase the vcore from 1.45 to 1.65 though to keep it from crashing at startup. The results on PCMark2002 were:<BR>CPU: 6934<BR>Mem: 5695<BR>HDD: 1004<BR><BR>and I plan on clocking her up even more when I get home tonight.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[BAM!]

make sure you run prime95's torture test to ensure stability <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[Ginsu543]

The ram timing I'm using right now (4-2-2-2) works great for my current setup of 13 x 170MHz. When I raised FSB above that, I actually set the ram timing to By SPD and let the mobo decide (I think it was picking 7-3-3-2.5 or even 8-4-4-3 at higher FSB's). So I don't think it was the aggressive ram timings that caused the hangups and failed boots.<BR><BR>Any other ideas? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[BAM!]

do you have any PCI slots in used?. on my A7N8X it won't go over 179fsb if there's any PCI device installed. i am not sure if your abit rev 1.0 has a PCI lock or not.. but if it doesn't that's probably your problem.

[TranceJunkieXL]

I always forget that PCI cards can dramatically limit your OC. Colin even wrote a great article on NIC cards and how well they OC.

[Ginsu543]

Actually, I do have one PCI card installed: it's my USB2.0 PCI card. I didn't know that the PCI card can affect oc. I'm not sure if I have the PCI slot lock but I'm going to look right now. I will report back afterwards.

[DeanLowe]

If the lock is enabled then PCI cards shouldn't affect anything. I'm running 220FSB with a TV tuner and a Promise Ultra66a and they both work fine.

[Ginsu543]

Well, I took all your advice and looked at my BIOS to see if there was a setting for PCI slot lock. I didn't find one for locking the PCI, but I did find a setting for Enhanced PCI mode. I set it to ON, and I was able to push my FSB upto 185MHz!!! I did have to raise my Vcore back up to 1.85V and raise my ram timings (6-3-3-2), but now I have a 2.220GHz overclock. Prime95 ran without errors and I was able to play an entire game of EA Sports NBA Live 2001 without any freeze-ups.<BR><BR>Thanks to all for your advice!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[BAM!]

try take out your PCI cards for test... i have a feeling you can go higher without them <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR><BR>DEAN!!.. so does the rev 2.0 have the PCI lock??... i am jealous!<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">

[TranceJunkieXL]

Congratulations Ginsu543! It's always nice to know we helped, even if we didn't have the right answer.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0"><BR>Try BAM!'s suggestion and run it without any PCI slots just to see if you can go any higher.<BR>Yeah Dean, I'm still trying to figure out the complicated BIOS that came with the NF7-S. How does a PCI lock work anyhow?

[BAM!]

i don't have one myself ... but if i am not mistaken it should be something like PCI frequency. if you change it from auto to say 33mhz then in a way it's locked to that frequency. ... try reading the manual .. it should tell you <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[TranceJunkieXL]

AGP was automatically set at 33MHz. I don't remember seeing anything for PCI. I'll have to check it when I get home tonight.<BR>So would it improve performance on the AGP if I upped it? Do I need to mess with OCing the 9700Pro first? I want to see how far this machine can go with only air cooling. So far I have hit 1409 on PCMark2002 and just 13186 on 3DMark2002SE.<BR>Neat! I noticed last night that the 12v rail was still around 11.48v on that generic PSU. It was 12.23v before the OC.<BR>Does anyone here know how to configure MBM5 so that it will read the proper core temps? For some reason last night it was reading 117C <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif" border="0"> at rest and on reboot the BIOS showed a frosty 32C. LOL! Either that or help me figure out how to access/configure the one that was supposed to come with the Abit. My SOYO installed itself with the drivers, so I have no clue about this one.<BR>Thanks for all your help guys.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">

[BAM!]

are you sure the AGP is set at 33mhz?!! correct me if i am wrong..... but i think it's suppose to be at 66mhz. PCIs' should be 33mhz. and try run prime95 man!!>. i really wanna find out if you got a better chip than me or not !!>

[TranceJunkieXL]

My memory could be playing tricks on me. It was 4:30 AM when I was doing all this.<BR>ROFLOL! BAM! more benches to come as soon as I can get home. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[GNXtreme]

rithemking there is a HW monitor on the driver disk that came with the mobo...mine works great!

[TranceJunkieXL]

LOL! GNXtreme, you are <i>so</i> right. It's even listed on the CD. LOL! I told you it was 4:30 this morning when I was trying to mess with all this.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> Who needs sleep, right? Goodbye MBM5. LOL!<BR>My 3D marks were about 50 points below your Ti4200 GNX. Guess I have to crank it up now!

[DeanLowe]

If you lock the AGP at 66MHz then the PCI will be locked at 33MHz as well. That should be the same with all nForce2 boards.

[BAM!]

i do'nt know about that DEAN... i don't think that's how it'll work. i am pretty sure the AGP and PCI lock is separated. IE. at least on my board the AGP is locked at 66 and PCI is not locked at all. and there are still many motherboard out there which only has AGP frequency lock and no PCI frequency lock.

[DeanLowe]

According to <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com">AnandTech</a><BR><BR><BR><< <i>The NF7-S BIOS version we received contained an AGP lock set at 66MHz, but we were unable to find any PCI lock set at 33MHz in this BIOS. We asked ABIT why the AGP lock was included in the NF7-S BIOS but not the PCI lock, and we were basically told that the only reason you don't see a PCI lock in the BIOS is because ABIT doesn't want users fooling around with PCI frequency, especially since it offers virtually no performance gain. We don't have any way of independently verifying ABIT's PCI lock claim ourselves, so take this piece of information as you will.</i> >><BR><BR><< <i>The A7N8X BIOS definitely does contain an AGP bus lock at 66MHz. However, what about the PCI bus lock at 33MHz? For this question we headed over to ASUS and asked them what was going on. ASUS's response was simply that they have a PCI bus lock set at 33MHz and that you have nothing to worry about as far as running your devices out of specification while performing FSB overclocking.</i> >><BR><BR><< <i>We still haven't been able to get confirmation from MSI as to whether the K7N2-L locks the PCI bus at 33MHz. There is an AGP lock at 66MHz for this board (as with all nForce2 boards). We'll immediately update you with more information as we receive it from MSI. 12/04/02 UPDATE: MSI sends word that the K7N2-L indeed does not have a PCI bus lock at 33MHz, meaning you will overclock your PCI bus to a certain level at a certain overclocked FSB speed.</i> >><BR><BR><BR><a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.html?i=1759">nForce2 6-way Motherboard Roundup - December 2002</a>

[BAM!]

i think this applies to the abit board and the newer revision 2.0 of A7N8X "only" (and those newer Nforce 2 boards). because i can almost possible guarentee you that a lot of those older boards out there including myself don't have a PCI frequency lock. <BR><BR>in my case and many reviews with my revision of board 1.04 has been practically proven that there is no PCI lock.

[DeanLowe]

Those reviews were done in December when the new versions hadn't come out yet. Version 2.0 for Abit and Asus just came out recently.

[BAM!]

i dont know what to tell you dean, i am not trying to argue with you here but either the review you read is wrong or the review i read is wrong and on top of that i have a defective board, which i seriously doubt it. i took out my PCI cards and now i am safely running 400 fsb.

[DeanLowe]

I had an old A7N8X Deluxe before and was able to run at 200FSB with the same PCI cards.

[Ginsu543]

Bam! is right. Stock AGP speed is 66MHz and 33MHz for PCI. Rithemking, which BIOS version are you using for your NF7-S? I think the newest one available from Abit is 1.7. Here's my question: although we are running different revisions of the NF7-S board, shouldn't we have the same BIOS settings because we are using the same BIOS version? I've checked the manual and I've looked at every BIOS setting available but I don't think I saw anything that allows you to change or lock the PCI speed. Am I missing something on this?<BR><BR>Also, Rithemking, definitely up your AGP port speed. I got a noticeable boost (300-400 points) on 3DMark2001SE when I raised it from stock 66MHz to 80MHz. Currently, my system seems rock solid at 80MHz. But as you say, you may want to first leave it at 66MHz, play around with oc'ing your VC, and then up it afterwards.

[DeanLowe]

The lastest version of the NF7-S is <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://fae.abit.com.tw/eng/download/bios/nf7-s2.htm">2.0</a> which uses a different BIOS the the earlier versions just like the A7N8X. 1.7 is a BIOS version while 2.0 is a new board with a later version of the nForce2 north bridge.<BR>You don't see the PCI speed setting is because it isn't there. They didn't put it in the BIOS for you to change.<BR><BR>GF4s handle high AGP speeds better than Radeons.<BR>

[GNXtreme]

well great!.... that gives me something else to tweak!....I will have to try it<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[TranceJunkieXL]

Yeah Ginsu, I haven't found anything in BIOS to change the PCI frequency.<BR>Okay. My 1700+ topped out at 2.400GHz using 200FSB and 12x multiplier. This setting ran stable on Prime95 for more than 1680 iterations. For some reason I couldn't get it to run anything at all on a higher FSB with lower multiplier. Sometimes it wouldn't even boot. It turns out the BIOS had the RAM by SPD, which was 2-9-4-4. WTH? I changed it back to 2-6-3-3 and it seems to be working like a charm. At 210FSB at 11x, I got 13261 3DMark which is only 280 points shy of the 2.4GHz score. I'll be upping that FSB some more to see if I can use the guaranteed 433 (yes?) FSB with this GEIL.

[GNXtreme]

WTG mang!&nbsp;&nbsp; Keep going!

[BAM!]

what vcore are you on rithem?? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">

[Ginsu543]

Way to go, rithemking!!!<BR><BR>200 MHz FSB is very impressive. Actually, I'm quite happy with my 185 MHz. I've been reading up on reviews of the NF7-S revision 1.0 on various websites (I had to get into their archived files since these reviews were done several months back) and they couldn't get their mobo to clock above 183 MHz. I guess I've reached the top end of what revision 1.0 can do.<BR><BR>BTW, are you getting the 13261 3DMark2001SE score on your Ti 4200 or your ATI 9700? Which is the better videocard, IYO?

[neverfastenuf]

GNX just needs to get a good powersupply, like a Vantec stealth 420 and his problems would be solved. But I hear is going to go cheap and get some generic powersupply. I guess he will never overclock successfully

[GNXtreme]

neverfastenuf...thanks for the suggestion on the PSU...but seriously you and your sarcastic @$$ can imagine me flipping you off right now...

[TranceJunkieXL]

LMAO! Well GNXtreme, looks like we have someone who will finally ride you to OC both those CPUs properly. LOL!<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">

[GNXtreme]

yeah rithemking...he just happens to be my boss...

[TranceJunkieXL]

LOL! No more excuses then, eh? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">