Why we need Gitmo

[DoK]

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200506150748.asp

I thought this was a pretty good op-ed piece and I wanted to share it.

[Zefram]

Jail was meant to held bad people, and as far as i concern, i dont really care what happened inside, as long as the neighbourhood is safe from the crimimal, terrorist and such, i dont just care :D

[omga14]

i don't mind them holding people if they have charges against them but alot of those people have never had formal charges brought against them and wether they are US citizens or not we are obligated to afford them the same rights when under our juristiction. i'm no liberal and i'm no republican. just a military guy stating the facts.

[§hinoßi]

what an idiot, he mentions salim like the guy came out of Iraq, then uses him to give a reason for Bush invading Iraq.

Salim is one of Bin Laden's top officers, and he was in Afghanistan, not freaking Iraq.

This is so typical of Bush people, they freaking make it look like their screwups actually had a meaning, when all they have to do is say, know what? We screwed up, let's learn from this, and not repeat it.

As for Salim, why is he even alive? He helped murder 3000 Americans, fry his ass, he has no compassion for life, so he doesn't need one.

Better yet, have Salim stab the guy in the eye who thought he guy should be treated with dignity, and see if his opinion changes.

Even better, this guy goes on to say, Kerry people try to say Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror....WELL NOW THEY FREAKING DO!!

Bush handed their asses thousands of terrorists by walking in and attacking Iraq because of something Osama Bin Laden did.

Thats like my next door neighbor shooting ur sister, then you coming in and shooting my sister because im kinda like him. Of course im gonna retaliate.

[DoK]

what an idiot, he mentions salim like the guy came out of Iraq, then uses him to give a reason for Bush invading Iraq.

Salim is one of Bin Laden's top officers, and he was in Afghanistan, not freaking Iraq.
Try reading it again. He doesn't say anything about Salim coming from Iraq. This isn't even an article on Iraq, it's on Guantanamo. He didn't even give any sort of justification for invading Iraq; I have no idea where you're pulling this from.

This is so typical of Bush people, they freaking make it look like their screwups actually had a meaning, when all they have to do is say, know what? We screwed up, let's learn from this, and not repeat it.
And how do you deal with your mistakes? Do you really believe the liberation doesn't mean anything by itself? Sure, it wasn't the reason for going in, but this was the good that came from the invasion.

As for Salim, why is he even alive? He helped murder 3000 Americans, fry his ass, he has no compassion for life, so he doesn't need one.
He's alive so we can extract information from him. It does no good to kill every member of Al-Qaeda we find, because we'll never win that way.

Better yet, have Salim stab the guy in the eye who thought he guy should be treated with dignity, and see if his opinion changes.
Couldn't agree more.

Bush handed their asses thousands of terrorists by walking in and attacking Iraq because of something Osama Bin Laden did.

Thats like my next door neighbor shooting ur sister, then you coming in and shooting my sister because im kinda like him. Of course im gonna retaliate.
No it isn't. 9/11 played a roll in the decision to invade Iraq, most definitely. 9/11 by itself was not what brought on the invasion, though - it was Saddam's noncompliance with Resolution 1441.

[§hinoßi]

And how do you deal with your mistakes? Do you really believe the liberation doesn't mean anything by itself? Sure, it wasn't the reason for going in, but this was the good that came from the invasion.


It's not a matter of how I deal with my mistakes, im not the president of the United States of America, my f*ck ups don't affect millions of people, and they definitely don't lead to the deaths of soldiers fighting in a war I didn't properly plan.


He's alive so we can extract information from him. It does no good to kill every member of Al-Qaeda we find, because we'll never win that way.


You're right, I forgot about that, but when ur done BURN HIM!!


No it isn't. 9/11 played a roll in the decision to invade Iraq, most definitely. 9/11 by itself was not what brought on the invasion, though - it was Saddam's noncompliance with Resolution 1441.

Dok what im saying is, we were attacked by an organization in Afghanistan, and before we even captured their leader, we were already attacking Iraq. What do you think that looks like to Muslims in general?? Not just those in any certain place. That says to them, "America is attacking muslims, we need to rebel"

So they join these terrorists cells thinking, "hey, Allah will praise me for fighting for my people from persecution"

[DoK]

Dok what im saying is, we were attacked by an organization in Afghanistan, and before we even captured their leader, we were already attacking Iraq. What do you think that looks like to Muslims in general?? Not just those in any certain place. That says to them, "America is attacking muslims, we need to rebel"

So they join these terrorists cells thinking, "hey, Allah will praise me for fighting for my people from persecution"
If the situation were as simple as "we attack Afghanistan, then we attack Iraq," without any qualifiers attached to it, and then there was this great Muslim uprising against us, then sure, I would agree with you. But, we attacked Afghanistan because of 9/11, and we attacked Iraq because of Resolution 1441. Due to a lack of a large Muslim uprising against the coalition, I'd say that most Muslims understand, though may not always agree with, our actions while a minority view us as the "great satan".

It seems that most Muslims are smart enough to tell the difference between a war on Islam and a war on terror. For instance, if a traffic cop set up a speed trap, and pulled over 3 people in a row that were doing 100 MPH in a 70 MPH zone, and all 3 of those people happened to be latino, no one in their right mind would assume that the officer was racist because he pulled over 3 motorists in a row that just happened to be latino.

[Zefram]

No it isn't. 9/11 played a roll in the decision to invade Iraq, most definitely. 9/11 by itself was not what brought on the invasion, though - it was Saddam's noncompliance with Resolution 1441.
Saddam's complied with every UN request - he just dont like America (because his arse was kicked by US in the gulf war :D) and then, ignoring america warning.......

There is no WMD and stuff, nothing!
UN weapon inspector already inspect Iraq and reported that they dont have any WMD, but US was too stubborn to listen to United Nations.

Now, many people doubted the power of United Nations................ i believe United Nations will ended up like former league of nations.......... useless....

P/S : 9/11 tragedy have big effect on my family - financially because of the falling stock prices and the inability to trade for 2 week (Wall street was closed)

[§hinoßi]

Due to a lack of a large Muslim uprising against the coalition, I'd say that most Muslims understand, though may not always agree with, our actions while a minority view us as the "great satan".

It seems that most Muslims are smart enough to tell the difference between a war on Islam and a war on terror. For instance, if a traffic cop set up a speed trap, and pulled over 3 people in a row that were doing 100 MPH in a 70 MPH zone, and all 3 of those people happened to be latino, no one in their right mind would assume that the officer was racist because he pulled over 3 motorists in a row that just happened to be latino.

Wow, im sure the families of the soldiers killed would say losing more soldiers after the war than the war itself is more than a "lack" of a large uprising. Just because 400 million muslims arent coming at us with the will to die doesn't mean they hate and want to kill us.

And im not saying we attacked Iraq because of 9/11, I don't know where you are getting that. Im saying, thats what it looks like to muslim people when Bush is all ardent on catching these terrorists, but instead of looking for the mastermind, he attacks Iraq. If I were a muslim and saw a country that goes against my ideals, doing that stuff, that's what I'd think.

[DoK]

Saddam's complied with every UN request - he just dont like America (because his arse was kicked by US in the gulf war :D) and then, ignoring america warning.......
Saddam did not comply with anything asked of him by the UN. (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2021/Briefing%20on%20the%20Iraq%20Weapons%20Inspectors' %20Report.htm)

Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;

Wow, im sure the families of the soldiers killed would say losing more soldiers after the war than the war itself is more than a "lack" of a large uprising.
The majority of Iraqis are supportive of the Coalition's efforts. Ask any soldier over there and they'll tell you that. Had most people in Iraq not wanted us there, we would not still be there. There is no large uprising. There are people fighting a losing battle against the coalition, but they are considered criminals in Iraq. Remember Vietnam? Kinda like Iraq, except completely different - think of it that way.

Just because 400 million muslims arent coming at us with the will to die doesn't mean they hate and want to kill us.
Run that by me again?

And im not saying we attacked Iraq because of 9/11, I don't know where you are getting that.
I got that from one of your earlier posts. Try to pay attention...
Bush handed their asses thousands of terrorists by walking in and attacking Iraq because of something Osama Bin Laden did.

If you're not saying we attacked Iraq because of 9/11, what then are you implying with that statement? Did Osama do something else to us that you think caused us to invade Iraq?

If I were a muslim and saw a country that goes against my ideals, doing that stuff, that's what I'd think.
And empirical evidence suggests that you would be a minority.

[§hinoßi]

Saddam's complied with every UN request - he just dont like America (because his arse was kicked by US in the gulf war :D) and then, ignoring america warning.......

There is no WMD and stuff, nothing!
UN weapon inspector already inspect Iraq and reported that they dont have any WMD, but US was too stubborn to listen to United Nations.

Now, many people doubted the power of United Nations................ i believe United Nations will ended up like former league of nations.......... useless....

P/S : 9/11 tragedy have big effect on my family - financially because of the falling stock prices and the inability to trade for 2 week (Wall street was closed)

actually zef, its not that he complied with EVERYTHING, it was more like, he said, "f*ck you" untill we threatened war, then he'd back down a bit.

And I can sympathize with Bush there, I mean, it really wasn't him that came up with that info, more like 7 different intelligence agencies. And when you have the word of 7 agenices like CIA, Scotland Yard (or whatever englands agency is lol), etc vs a small group of UN inspectors inspecting such a large area, its obvious who you'd believe.

I definitely don't fault Bush there, as the President, he has to make decisions on what's best for the country. I know if I was there, and 7 head honchos said to me, "look, we have evidence of WMD's and we believe this man is going to attack" I'd be like, "Let's get in there and stop this"

My big gripe with Bush going into Iraq, was his planning. He was told by Generals how many soldiers it would take to do things such as, guard suspected weapons stores, guard oil refineries, etc.

He didn't listen, he sent an undertrained, undermanned, and underprotected army into Iraq. Even worse, the only things that were guarded were oil refineries.

It's things like that that say to me that this man doesn't have what it takes to lead this country.

[§hinoßi]

Run that by me again?


i meant to put a don't in there, leave me alone, im taking calls while im doing this lol


I got that from one of your earlier posts. Try to pay attention...



If you're not saying we attacked Iraq because of 9/11, what then are you implying with that statement? Did Osama do something else to us that you think caused us to invade Iraq?


Im implying that, this is what it freaking looks like to these terrorists. It doesn't matter if I think it's the reason or not, they do because of how Bush has attacked one after the other.

Instead of trying to act like Bush is such a hero for invading Iraq, and he's so great, why don't you open your eyes and see that there were places such as North Korea, and Iran, that were either finishing up their Nuclear weapons programs, or in the process of developing them. If he was really out to protect America, why didn't he attack them instead?

Why can't Bush and his camp admit that it was a f*ck up??

Not only do they not admit it, now they say, "oh we went in there to liberate Iraqis"

wow, that's alot different than the tapes of you standing in front of the UN crying "WMD!! WMD!!"

[DoK]

Instead of trying to act like Bush is such a hero for invading Iraq, and he's so great, why don't you open your eyes and see that there were places such as North Korea, and Iran, that were either finishing up their Nuclear weapons programs, or in the process of developing them. If he was really out to protect America, why didn't he attack them instead?
Because none of the above countries you mentioned have U.N. sanctions on them saying that they can't keep doing as they are. Iraq did have a sanction on it prohibiting it from engaging in certain activities and stipulating that it had to allow inspectors uninhibited access to the country. Iraq did not comply, so action was taken.

Why can't Bush and his camp admit that it was a f*ck up??
I'm not defending Bush here; WMDs was a screw up, everyone knows that. Liberating the Iraqis was a good thing to come of the war, though. This wasn't a total, as you so eloquently put it, "f*ck up."

Not only do they not admit it, now they say, "oh we went in there to liberate Iraqis"
No disagreement.

[§hinoßi]

Because none of the above countries you mentioned have U.N. sanctions on them saying that they can't keep doing as they are. Iraq did have a sanction on it prohibiting it from engaging in certain activities and stipulating that it had to allow inspectors uninhibited access to the country. Iraq did not comply, so action was taken.


So you think they should have free reign to build these things that they can use to kill millions of people, just because the UN doesn't have sanctions on them?


I'm not defending Bush here; WMDs was a screw up, everyone knows that. Liberating the Iraqis was a good thing to come of the war, though. This wasn't a total, as you so eloquently put it, "f*ck up."


I didnt say that was, im saying his whole strategy for invading iraq, was the f*ck up.

Just because you kick a crosseyed guy in the head, and he dies, but his eyes go straight doesn't make it right. His eyes just happened to go straight, you can ignore your f*ck up of kicking him, just because something good came out of it.

[DoK]

So you think they should have free reign to build these things that they can use to kill millions of people, just because the UN doesn't have sanctions on them?
Yes, that's exactly what I said, wasn't it? :rolleyes:

You asked why we didn't attack North Korea or Iran, so I told you.

I didnt say that was, im saying his whole strategy for invading iraq, was the f*ck up.
That's subject to opinion.

Just because you kick a crosseyed guy in the head, and he dies, but his eyes go straight doesn't make it right. His eyes just happened to go straight, you can ignore your f*ck up of kicking him, just because something good came out of it.
Totally reasonable observation. :rolleyes:

No one is ignoring the "f*ck up". I told you, I'm not defending Bush for not saying that WMDs was a screw up.

[§hinoßi]

allrighty then......

that was fun, and right now theres no calls....

we need a new topic Dok lol, im bored.

PEPSI roxorz your boxorz, and coke people suck....discuss

[chris000001]

Coke Is The Sh*t!!!! Pepsi Sucks!!!!!!

BTW: i still want your ram

[§hinoßi]

a coke guy huh....$900!!!

[chris000001]

Its my Parents fault...Plus i grew up in Atlanta (a very coke dominated place)