View Full Version : Bush has been Bushwhacked by the Dems!
AKHandyman
11-15-05, 07:09 PM
I normally stay out politics because of the obvious attacks that come from either side of the argument that you present. But, in this instance, I have to firmly protest! I have to object to the way the Democrats that are maliciously attacking the President over the Intel that was used by BOTH parties of Congress to decide to go to war in Iraq. The Democrats voted to go, the Republicans voted to go and now the Democrats are trying to rewrite history. This is total bull************************!! Everyone knows that Suddam Hussien had at one time or another weapons of mass destruction and he was in complete defiance of the UN! Bush did what any other president would have done given the same intelligence...and the Democrats agreed!!!! It is totally irresponsibable for the Democrats to now try to change or even rewrite the way the intelligence came to the Administration and Congress. It doesn't matter about what the hell I think about the way the way things came about, it's more about what we, as a country, want to move forward. To suddenly cut and run, would disgrace the fine women and men of our armed forces who have sacrificed their lives for OUR country! We have this internet freedom because of THEM!!!
You folks who don't like the war, well, all I have to ask is this: If you lost someone you love to an act of terrorisim, albeit the 9/11 attacks, or somewhere else in the world? Would you still protest the way the United States is trying to keep YOU safe?
AKHandyman
11-15-05, 07:14 PM
And I expect a healthy and honest debate on this because everyone has an opinion and it should be respected. Please, no personal attacks on one's belief, cause that's what makes us an American Democracy! and we do respect other's opinions! We should all have a healthy respect for one's opinion :)
I have to also admit that 80% of the media that the American people see is against the Bush Administration, so there is not a lot of GOOD news that comes into focus. So, please take into consideration that what is reported by the mainstream media, is obviously squewd by the left-leaning media! They have failed to show what has been done by the US that has improved the many facets of the way the Iraqi people are now living and what they, as an independent people, are trying to reorganize and live in a democracy of their own.
Here we go again... :rolleyes:
Look out for Nova, Handyman. He's the master of stream of consciousness nonsensical ramblings, so he'll keep you on your toes. ;)
Ominous Gamer
11-15-05, 09:33 PM
I like how people who claim to not like political discussions can sum up entire days of congressional meetings into 2 run on paragraphs, still manage to oversimplify war as peace, and then expect to have a "discussion" on the interweb.
I lost friends in 9/11 and the war, hell it took my school's salutatorian. This happens when you lived your entire life outside an Army base (MacDill). I'm still not sold on War and half assed occupation.
unsubscribed
chris000001
11-15-05, 11:23 PM
anybody care to fill me in?
AKHandyman
11-15-05, 11:30 PM
Here we go again... :rolleyes:
Look out for Nova, Handyman. He's the master of stream of consciousness nonsensical ramblings, so he'll keep you on your toes. ;)
Thanks for the heads up... i suspected the retort...and especially from Ominous...he's totally not informed of all the facts...he's too young to know the difference...(bait) :cool:
I'll save y'all some trouble here...
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=22374&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=25178&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=26260&page=1&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=26759&page=1&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=27219&page=1&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=28231&page=1&highlight=iraq+bush
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=33848&page=1&highlight=iraq+bush
These are what I think to be the best of the Iraq/Bush threads. Now, instead of repeating ourselves, we can just copy and paste all the same arguments over again!
i don't like either party really, even the independants. all have their own agenda. the democrats did the shut down to get the information that was supposed to come in 2 parts before the last election. 2nd part was never investigated. that's the main part but of course politicians are politicians and will take any opportunity to further thier party by slamming the rival. i'll get more detail for you Dok as i know you'll want details. it's late here though and i'm in the middle of a week long exam.
§hinoßi
11-16-05, 06:19 AM
Bush made up stories about WMD's, there was never intelligence. I heard he smuggles opium in from Afghanistan now. And he is a machine thats why he needs the oil all the time....
Alien Cyborg Hybrids are human too!!
Rudegar
11-16-05, 06:56 AM
"all have their own agenda. "
i believe that goes for every human on the planet
agenda's is not a bad thing only when it's secret and involve probing ;)
and bah! bush is no machine
he's a plant
thats the reason he have that name it's a clever word play!
soo many people missed that one! :)
and the only reason he smugglers opium is because it's his relatives!
for the part with the democrats i totally agree with you, they did say lets roll. i remember that part clearly. BUT, yes there's always gonne be a but. The reason i hate the war is because we did go there for the wrong reasons, are staying for the right ones, and have no plan or idea of what we're going to be doing. They said that Iraq was gonna be like 6 months of taking it over (not sure exacly how long but not long at all) and now a few months ago they come out and tell us we have to stay there another 16 give or take years.
They said that Iraq was gonna be like 6 months of taking it over (not sure exacly how long but not long at all)...
I call bull$hit. Try again.
AKHandyman
11-16-05, 01:10 PM
for the part with the democrats i totally agree with you, they did say lets roll. i remember that part clearly. BUT, yes there's always gonne be a but. The reason i hate the war is because we did go there for the wrong reasons, are staying for the right ones, and have no plan or idea of what we're going to be doing. They said that Iraq was gonna be like 6 months of taking it over (not sure exacly how long but not long at all) and now a few months ago they come out and tell us we have to stay there another 16 give or take years.
We can't give the terrorists a timeline on when we would leave...they'd just sit back and wait until that time and then start killing again. That's the biggest thing that seems to be left out of the disscussion...Those people have no morals when it comes to blowing up cars, places or people. We are there, we ARE doing a good job, albeit the left-leaning media won't report on the good stuff and we have to stay the course. I agree to some extent that the way the intelligence was used to go to war was indeed flawed, but nonetheless, we ARE making a difference. It may take time, no one really knows, but in the end, the whole world will be better off. The Iraqis will be better off as well.
Gen. Chaos
11-16-05, 05:18 PM
Bush's argument makes no sense. (surprise) He says the Dems that supported the war are now saying we shouldnt have gone to war and re-write history. The Dems supported the war based on intelligence him and his cronies made up! Maybe they wouldn't have supported the war if the actual facts were shown!
Maybe we wouldnt want to re-write history if Bush wouldnt re-write facts to suit his political and financial goals.
AKHandyman
11-16-05, 10:38 PM
Bush's argument makes no sense. (surprise) He says the Dems that supported the war are now saying we shouldnt have gone to war and re-write history. The Dems supported the war based on intelligence him and his cronies made up! Maybe they wouldn't have supported the war if the actual facts were shown!
Maybe we wouldnt want to re-write history if Bush wouldnt re-write facts to suit his political and financial goals.
So sorry my friend, but you are so misinformed...no one made up any intelligence...please look at the facts once again and then, only then, will you be able to honestly make an informed deceision that supports the TRUE facts...just look at this... okay? Democrats for the War in Iraq (http://www.gop.com/)
Bush didn't make up anything...if there's anything to question, it would be the Democrats trying to rewrite the actual history of what THEY agreed to be believed what was the percieved threat...It's so f**king lame...the Dems are so out of step, it's Hillarious...(like in Hillary Clinton...) Get a clue folks! The politics are so out of whack...no one tried to bamboozle anyone, but the Dems are trying to rewrite the history books now, with whitewash and lies...they have nothing else... :p
Gen. Chaos
11-20-05, 12:18 AM
So sorry my friend, but you are so misinformed...no one made up any intelligence...please look at the facts once again and then, only then, will you be able to honestly make an informed deceision that supports the TRUE facts...just look at this... okay? Democrats for the War in Iraq (http://www.gop.com/)
Bush didn't make up anything...if there's anything to question, it would be the Democrats trying to rewrite the actual history of what THEY agreed to be believed what was the percieved threat...It's so f**king lame...the Dems are so out of step, it's Hillarious...(like in Hillary Clinton...) Get a clue folks! The politics are so out of whack...no one tried to bamboozle anyone, but the Dems are trying to rewrite the history books now, with whitewash and lies...they have nothing else... :p
"...no one made up any intelligence..."
Well, someone made up intelligence, because our president knew for a fact that Iraq had WMDs and facilities to make them. This was "intelligence" that we had in hand. Yet there were no WMDs. Unless they disappeared magically, then someone was lying!
Maybe someone was trying to bamboozle us into supporting a war! :p
Everyone knew Iraq was was dangerous. You dont just sart a war with a nation just because you consider them dangerous.
If we did that , we'd have a lot or wars to fight.
We can't give the terrorists a timeline on when we would leave
Last time I checked you were fighting insurgents not terrorists ( a possible side effect of your GOP brainwashing?)
Those people have no morals when it comes to blowing up cars, places or people
Some might argue that the US military is hardly a moral organisation eg. Abu Ghraib. Most of the attacks in Iraq appear to be aimed at US military and Iraqi police. Both would seem to be legitimate targets for an insurgency.albeit the left-leaning media won't report on the good stuff and we have to stay the courseWhat left leaning media? Where is your proof of this conspiracy? This sounds like anti media propaganda to me used to discredit any person in the media who contadicts the republicans. I guess we should go to GOP.com to get unbiased news?we ARE making a difference Hate to break it to you but its looking more and more like your getting your asses kicked. Your casualty reports keep rising not decreasing, as would be expected if you were correct about the progress of the war.
Why would anyone bother reiterating the statements made over and over by the gop and white house press secretary as if they were there own opinions? Maybe to make it look like they have done real research when all they have done is read all the republican propaganda.
i will say one thing that will shock even dok. in the military (that i am a member of) if a person is killed there are certain criteria that will determine if you were a casualty of war or not. to take a 12 page message traffic down to simplicity, if you were not killed in armed combat during a battle you are not a casualty of war. hence if you were at some building that was blown up by some insurgent you are not considered a casualty of war. in my personal opinion if we are at war with terrorists and we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here anyone who dies over there is a casualty of war period. you see on the news that there are 2000+ "casualties of war" but how many more aren't placed in that catagory that have died. how come no one talks about all the permanently disabled from this war? that number in itself would shock even the most jaded person to the war.
are we doing good over there? yes, there are universities reopening, schools being built all over, and many other things that aren't mentioned in the media (on this i agree with DOK and anyone who says different is just "sticking to there guns" and not looking at the whole thing not just what benifits thier argument. will it last? ask me again in 20 years cause no one knows(and anyone who says they do is feeding you bull************************).
we can argue if the intelligenc was legit, made up, or acquired from sources found to be false all day. all i care about is what are we doing to find an extract plan? i don't care anymore why we went there but how are we going to get out. we can't fight this war forever and that is one fact no one can argue with.
i will say one thing that will shock even dok. in the military (that i am a member of) if a person is killed there are certain criteria that will determine if you were a casualty of war or not. to take a 12 page message traffic down to simplicity, if you were not killed in armed combat during a battle you are not a casualty of war. hence if you were at some building that was blown up by some insurgent you are not considered a casualty of war. in my personal opinion if we are at war with terrorists and we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here anyone who dies over there is a casualty of war period. you see on the news that there are 2000+ "casualties of war" but how many more aren't placed in that catagory that have died.
Interesting... I didn't know that.
are we doing good over there? yes, there are universities reopening, schools being built all over, and many other things that aren't mentioned in the media (on this i agree with DOK and anyone who says different is just "sticking to there guns" and not looking at the whole thing not just what benifits thier argument. will it last? ask me again in 20 years cause no one knows(and anyone who says they do is feeding you bull************************).
Mmm hmm. It's subject to debate right now as to whether or not this will be to the benefit of Iraq in the long run. I'm inclined to say that it will.
It's subject to debate right now as to whether or not this will be to the benefit of Iraq in the long run. I'm inclined to say that it will.
and you have that right as we won't know it's full effect in either direction. but that's all it will be for now, a debate. i truly hope that it all turns out for the best for the people of Iraq if for one thing, each person(military and civillian, US or otherwise) that has died in this war.
i hope it becomes a true democracy and not a republic as ours is currently. no electoral college. just straight forward number of votes elects the candidate.
i hope it becomes a true democracy and not a republic as ours is currently. no electoral college. just straight forward number of votes elects the candidate.
There's a fine line between a pure democracy and anarchy ;).
As long as their population doesn't get so large as to upset the lumbering bureaucracy we call government, I wouldn't see a problem with them having a pure democracy. Of course, if the populations gets too high, they'll have to either alter their constitution or deal with rampant inefficiency.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/11/16/phosphorus-fallujah051116.html
And the hits just keep on commin...
I hope you don't miss the part where they explain that white phosphorus was on the cia's list of chemical weapons possesed by Sadam Hussein.
uh, white phosphorus is used by the us as well. it's an illuminator round sometimes called "starburst". watch the movie under siege and you'll see what i mean.
DOK, i agree with your point on the razor edge between pure democracy and anarchy. thing is as long as there is a controlling government there cannot be anarchy in a relative sense. i don't think that the population will get large enough to tip the balance though within our lifetime. there's something like more people in N.Y. state than the country of Iraq.
uh, white phosphorus is used by the us as well. it's an illuminator round sometimes called "starburst". watch the movie under siege and you'll see what i mean.
I get it, it's just that according to the report the phosphorus was being used as a chemical weapon in the "shake and bake" operations. That is in an area with a high civilian population. Apparently this stuff will burn a person to the bone and cannot be put out. And is against the geneva conventions as a chemical weapon. So if you follow my logic Saddam used chemical weapons against a portion of the population in revolt against him and he's a war criminal. US uses chem weapons against a portion of the population in revolt against them and they are what? Shouldn't the US be subject to the same rules that they are supposedly enforcing?
Rudegar
11-21-05, 04:59 AM
are you sure that that white phosphorus is on the banned list ?
i read it was on the iffy not liked list but not on the true banned chem list
because it's main purpos was to make smoke screens and only when used in an
unplesent way was it a chem weapon
I am only going by the report I saw on the CBC and then the link. However, if using the phosphorus to burn suspected insurgents alive isn't an unpleasant use, then I wouldn't know what is. But ill try and research it more later when i have time.
Stone Fox
11-22-05, 04:54 AM
WP grenades (or willy-pete as they're nicknamed in the British army) are supposed to be used for light and smoke, but are a ferocious weapon.
Technically you can put phosphorus out by starving it in oxygen. On ranges where they test them they keep buckets of sand which is the most effective way.
But as soon as you took your arm out from under the sand then it would catch light again - Phosphorus ignites on contact with oxygen.
If you threw a WP grenade into an enclosed space with people in it...? I think that definately constitutes an illegal use of phosphorus. And I'd imagine you'd hear the screams in your sleep for years.
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